julyan04 said: hyperknees91 said: julyan04 said: Next episode's title will be Little Busters not Little Jumper. That leaves us hope (at least a tiny bit) that they will adapt the bad end. Don't expect a 1:1 adaptation? Yeah, I already did that, but ruining a great potential for a feels trip is stupid just to force a happy ending. They literally threw out the emotions they build-up during Kyousuke's and Komari's farewell. Also, they could have prolonged Komari's farewell a bit more. In the VN, a long Komari farewell is odd because of the lack of buildup, but in the anime it is different. We had a lot of Komari here and there. It's alright for them to end this anime using the true ending.. but who knows, maybe they could have execute it a lot better. That's....exactly what the VN did. Did you not read it? Blame Jun Maeda for having no balls. I've read it. And my memory tells me that Rin didn't become all that optimistic in a matter of seconds after that heartbreaking farewell which killed the mood. Yeah. That didn't happen. In my eyes, the point LB! wants to convey is learning to accept the realities we are facing; not turning away from them.. or something along those lines. That hospital scene showed us that, but removing it also removes e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. that was built up. If you're saying that the true ending ruined the mood Refrain was building up, maybe that's true, but I think not to this degree. And the message was already passed because of that hospital scene.. so who cares? I honestly wanted a happy ending after seeing them in the hospital lifeless. Anyway, I'm done hating. I already cooled off. I will again hope that JC will pull off a miracle. They've done it once already. Sorry if I sounded too negative. As much as possible, I also refrain from reading these threads because of the negativity that chokes me. I just wanted to convey my rants.. that's all. Cheers. Well A: Rin had no personality at all in the VN. If they were trying to establish mood in that scene they utterly failed if you ask me. Seeing Rin get character development isn't what I would call a mood killer. In fact it makes the true ending make more sense in a way now. I think you guys are in denial of the true ending or something. Listen...jun maeda copped out...he tricked you guys. He played around with your emotions like he did in all his other works. That's kind of his thing. The thing is...you guys think the VN is building up to "accepting reality" which its not, jun maeda pulled the plug on that in the last second. Much like he did in angel beats when it should have been about "accepting death" but he pulled the plug when he just had all of them be reborn anyway. Now if jun maeda's goal is to play around with your emotions, then well done he is a spectacular troll (he is the visual novel hideo kojima if you get my drift). But if it's to create an acceptable ending, then no he fails. I'm more leaning that he's a troll because of how many times he's done this though. And now you know why I initially hated the ending with all my soul. And why I still hate Kanon, Clannads and Angel Beats ending. Air is just weird so I won't include that. Unfortunately the steins;gate writer had to take influence from him and do the exact same thing with that VN. He also could have created a far more powerful ending, but chose to cop out because of lack of balls. |
hyperknees91Dec 22, 2013 5:18 AM
MCAL said: NayukiShiina said: They cut out Yae going Yandere. Obviously it was a 100% sh*t adaption. : P. MCAL said: Oh come on! It is one scene! One f**king scene! God! If that was 100% sh*t then all VN adaptions are 100% sh*t. Steins;Gate was alright. but well, always depends, it can be good, it can be bad, it can be so terrible so the fans will be act like the anime doesn't exists... that's why i don't want a dmmd animu for much i love the vn ugh they put it (a bit) in the movie... i think |
| Oooooor you can just consider how tacked on and out of nowhere the Little Busters true ending is compared to Clannad's which was part of the story from the beginning, and you could consider the bad end interpretation the true end. Just because Maeda came up with a second ending and labeled it the "true end" doesn't mean I have to accept that contrived nonsense that extended the VN for another 30 minutes, and added some extra heroine routes, just because I love the characters. Maybe the fact that there's no timeskip after the hospital end with Riki and Rin growing up is why people believe that the true end was his intention from the very beginning. Maybe Kyousuke saying "Is that enough?" is so gamechanging in the narrative, because you essentially have the martyr character telling you "Jk, we're all gonna live in the true end now." I mean, I took Little Busters as a powerful story of friendship, regrets, and overcoming tragedy. The heroine routes and part of Refrain already conveyed that, even if the true end didn't literally put the nail in the coffin by killing off the Little Busters as intended. I don't think the VN is about "accepting reality" as a whole. That'd be silly as hell to think with such Key magic being put in place. Maybe it just seems odd that I value the life lessons and everything obtained building up to the bad end, but wouldn't mind having a contrived magical true end to end the story off on a cheerful note. As a cute little Mexican girl once told me, "¿Por qué no los dos?" I guess when Maeda writes a copout, it somehow just completely and utterly destroys the bad end as well, as if it never existed. Well, not for me. When I replay Refrain, I keep my goal at the normal end. So, sadly, Jun Maeda didn't aim to make a definitive powerful statement of accepting tragedy and regrets and getting over it by leaving people off with the bad end. I don't think anyone who would adapt Little Busters to anime would have the balls to deliver that ending as the definitive one either. We get the "there's a glimmer of hope" and story theme redirection ending instead. I don't get why I can't like enjoy more depressing and realistic shit like Punpun and other series that don't have these kind of magical asspulls, and also enjoy a miracle ending. I don't even believe in god, but I don't mind the miracles happy end that much. But yeah, as much as I love the Little Busters and would want them back, it would be a damn powerful statement to create a story like that and leave it off with a realistic ending. It might be so powerful that the writer would risk their own and possibly even others' personal safety to create. Steins;Spoilers inc. As for stuff like Steins;Gate, I do think that the miraculous Okabe from the future stuff was borderline Key magic plot convenience in a way, even though there are all sorts of explanations with the time machine, different alpha timelines, etc etc. I think the time travel aspect made the happy ending more believable for most people. I dunno. A lot of writers write for money and to please a large audience, so we don't always get gems that stick to their guns and deliver the final punch without holding back. We just have to imagine the match had already ended before the copout if we want that kind of story from these people. tldr (since I ramble a looooot); I prefer the bad end, but there are issues with pleasing a wide audience with a happy that I think force Nitro+ and Key to do things they way they have done. The only way they can get around this is to present a more harsh and realistic story throughout, so that the bad end doesn't receive as much backlash. Or, of course, add in the happy endings, as they've been doing. |
| Yeah the bad end is great and how the VN should be taken as. The same as Steins;Gate really. It's my favorite VN, I love it to death and the time travel made it somewhat acceptable. But the ending it chose is infinitely weaker then the ending of chapter 9 (or was it 10?). The thing I don't understand is why writers even make the scenes in the first place if they aren't going to follow through with them fully. I mean I'm under the impression that if you are going to have drama (assuming the drama is meant to be taken seriously) that there has to be some permanent consequences for it to be effective drama. Otherwise it just comes off as cheap melodrama that no one likes to talk about. Granted don't get me wrong...regardless of how I feel about the ending. The farewell scene in Little Busters and Steins Gate are the two most powerful scenes I've experienced in a VN. I just wish I could take them fully seriously like I did upon first viewing. Imagine how much weaker heavens feel would've been if |
hyperknees91Dec 22, 2013 6:15 AM
hyperknees91 said: I mean I'm under the impression that if you are going to have drama (assuming the drama is meant to be taken seriously) that there has to be some permanent consequences for it to be effective drama. Otherwise it just comes off as cheap melodrama that no one likes to talk about. Granted don't get me wrong...regardless of how I feel about the ending. The farewell scene in Little Busters and Steins Gate are the two most powerful scenes I've experienced in a VN. I just wish I could take them fully seriously like I did upon first viewing. Yeah, this why I believe that not having the normal/bad ending at all just makes Kyousuke's farewell melodrama in hindsight. At least in the VN, there exists a timeline where that farewell built up to the death of all the LBs. The anime-only audience will never have the bros' farewells truly associated with their deaths once they finish the series. |
| Did they just actually leave out the hospital scene completely? What the fuck. That was such a powerful scene (especially with the camera moving to Rin sitting in the corner and the proposal after that), but no, let's leave it out because fuck you. The first half of the episode (showing the crash and Kenbro and Masabro saving Rin and Riki) was really good, as well as the girls' farewell, but they really could have shorten it just a small bit (hell even leave out the crash, it wasn't that necessary) and then put in the hospital scene. I know, I get it that they probably want to cut out the supposed Key magic/deus ex machina (which is stupid because it was kind of justified) and jump right into the true ending, but cutting out the whole bad/normal ending was just seriously stupid. So many feels lost... I really didn't care as much about the complaints that everyone had because apart from some changes here and there I really liked the adaptation (not perfect of course, could have been much better, but still delivers what it needs to), and I would have easily given it a 10/10 after the last two episodes. If they were done right... I'm not even sure anymore, I'm really sad they left that out. Please make at least the last episode good J.C. Staff. Somehow put in the hospital scene, or at least the RikixRin scene in the classroom if nothing else. That scene is the only hope I have left... |
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| I like how most of the hospitalfags are Rinfags. I think I'm one of the few who wanted the normal/bad/hospital end and didn't care for Rin (in any sense of the word "care"). |
Vladz0r said: I like how most of the hospitalfags are Rinfags. I think I'm one of the few who wanted the normal/bad/hospital end and didn't care for Rin (in any sense of the word "care"). Well I'm sorry for liking her the most out of the bunch :D Even if the hospital scene didn't have the proposal, or even Rin in it (either dying as well or just not there for some reason), it was still a very good scene, and all the remorse and stuff like that that came with it, which was pretty much building up all this time. Hell I would have been happier if they just went for the bad/normal ending and leave out the true ending completely, instead of pulling something like this. |
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RazielZero said: Vladz0r said: I like how most of the hospitalfags are Rinfags. I think I'm one of the few who wanted the normal/bad/hospital end and didn't care for Rin (in any sense of the word "care"). Well I'm sorry for liking her the most out of the bunch :D Even if the hospital scene didn't have the proposal, or even Rin in it (either dying as well or just not there for some reason), it was still a very good scene, and all the remorse and stuff like that that came with it, which was pretty much building up all this time. Hell I would have been happier if they just went for the bad/normal ending and leave out the true ending completely, instead of pulling something like this. Fuck that. Call me shallow, but if the VN had ended with the hospital scene I would have pulled my hair out. Errr...Clannad spoilers...though I'm sure everyone here has watched: But for Little Busters, I would never accept the hospital end. Don't ask me why. I have no idea. |
Ol-Hybrius said: SleepingEntity said: But for Little Busters, I would never accept the hospital end. Don't ask me why. I have no idea. Well... Maybe because they're all dead ? But the same should apply to Clannad (and Kanon, now that I think about it) too. Who knows? In fact, normally I hate happy endings where everyone lives, because it sorta defeats the purpose of the original feels ride. But LB seems to be an exception for me. |
| Well I do of course value the friendship in LB more than the romance parts, but if it's there already then leave it the fuck there. Of course taking it out of the routes was perfectly okay (even though some of them were much better with it like Haruka's). And like I said I would be okay with it if they left out the romance between Riki and Rin at the ending, but after the shit they just pulled that's pretty much the only thing that can make me happier now. And unfortunately I'm a sucker for romances that can spice up things even more even if they are "secondary", and LB is one of those (even if the romance isn't as great as a TomoyaxNagisa). |
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| Well, that's why I hope they do the Riki x Kyousuke scene from Bokura no Asa, instead of shoehorning a crappily built up Rin romance. ;) |
| For Kurugaya Fans: To bad she shipped RikixRin in her own route... right? :D :D :D |
| Well, I don't even treat anime Kurugaya like the Kurugaya I know most of the time. They're two separate entities. Some characters like Masato, Haruka, Kurugaya, Riki, Rin don't even feel enough like the same characters to me, from the stylistic choices of the anime, to their charm (or lack thereof) in the adaptation. I treat them as wholly different characters and my emotional attachment to them in the VN doesn't carry over to the anime. It's not like there's incredible development for me to really care about the characters as individuals in the anime. It takes a lot out of me to bring forth my VN nostalgia to force myself to feel emotion for some of these scenes. |
Vladz0r said: Well, that's why I hope they do the Riki x Kyousuke scene from Bokura no Asa, instead of shoehorning a crappily built up Rin romance. ;) Surprisingly, the anime had more Riki x Kyousuke scenes than Riki x Rin scenes. I'm assuming Riki x Kyousuke when the anime ends with a non-Rin ending. |
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| Also since EX technically takes place after refrain according to Tennouji they are more than likely going to ship Riki with no one. So you know...they don't piss off any shippers. Unless they are going to have Rin help out during EX (which I doubt). Just be funny for a dude with a gf to go out of his way to help other girls. Yeah they made a good bit of changes to the characters. They did that in Steins Gate and I thought it was odd but acceptable to a degree. |
hyperknees91 said: Unless they are going to have Rin help out during EX (which I doubt). Just be funny for a dude with a gf to go out of his way to help other girls. Rin is technically absent during the EX routes because of a certain reason, particularly Saya's and Sasami's routes. So whether Riki ends up with Rin or not on the final episode doesn't actually matter on the post-Refrain EX routes(Sasami's and Kanata's). |
TennoujiDec 22, 2013 9:23 AM
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| Well, we just have to wait for last episode to see if JC Staff does make a RikixRin ending. You never know.. cause its J.C Staff we talking about here. |
| Actually I'm totally fine with a RikixRin ending in this adaption as I actually like her character here. Would prefer Kurugaya of course, but I won't be disappointed with a Rin ending. Though they should grow the most supreme balls and do the world real justice. Give me RikixKyousuke ending. |
| Well, my mom's liking Little Busters (12 eps in) so far, so the anime adaptation can't be that bad. A lot of girls I've talked to seem to like Riki's character in the anime, and my mom's the same way :P. Looking back, he really does do quite a lot in the common route parts in addition to the heroine routes. hyperknees91 said: Though they should grow the most supreme balls and do the world real justice. Give me RikixKyousuke ending. And to that.. http://youtu.be/MSrTnWDTdwI?t=21s |
Vladz0r said: Well, that's why I hope they do the Riki x Kyousuke scene from Bokura no Asa, instead of shoehorning a crappily built up Rin romance. ;) yeah, mio ships them so hard after all, in the game, in the anime, in the 4-koma... |
| Well, there's hella misdirection in the anime. There was no doubt in my mind they were shooting for the bad end when they did all that blood and stuff in episode 10 and even the crash at the beginning of episode 12. I guess the fear and misdirection of the show was an attempt to give the audience the impact and tension without actually killing the LBs. Some anime-only watchers still seem pretty worried and scared for the LBs, even though the VN players know they aren't going to die at this rate. Maybe this was a good tactic for anime-only watchers, but I can't imagine how episode 13 will be taken... I think I just wished the show ended on a high emotional point, but with the true end, that's not quite possible. I wonder if people will like it more when they can actually marathon it. Season 1's score did creep up from 7.55 to 7.62 after a while. I think Angel Beats' score went up by about 8.52 to 8.58 a while after it finished as well. Key's works are especially much better when marathoned, and there are some episodes that actually do feel pretty continuous in between each other, rather than episodic. The continuous stream of emotions building up to the climax is just a more cohesive story that way. |
Vladz0rDec 22, 2013 1:41 PM
| Riki: Talk to me more, Like you use to... Kyousuke: Then what would you do with Rin? From now on, it's up to you to talk to her Riki: But... This is... All this time, I've been following you. I don't want you to go! Kyousuke: How long must you keep bothering me? Riki: Forever! of course! So J.C. Staff implied Riki X kyousuke. Riki is gay and kyousuke wants Riki to marry Rin O . O |
| I also really liked the way they made the girls farewell like this http://puu.sh/5VFF5.png It makes it look like the girls are actually ghosts. |
planetarian said: this can be a good dramaRiki: Talk to me more, Like you use to... Kyousuke: Then what would you do with Rin? From now on, it's up to you to talk to her Riki: But... This is... All this time, I've been following you. I don't want you to go! Kyousuke: How long must you keep bothering me? Riki: Forever! of course! So J.C. Staff implied Riki X kyousuke. Riki is gay and kyousuke wants Riki to marry Rin O . O |
planetarian said: Riki: Talk to me more, Like you use to... Kyousuke: Then what would you do with Rin? From now on, it's up to you to talk to her Riki: But... This is... All this time, I've been following you. I don't want you to go! Kyousuke: How long must you keep bothering me? Riki: Forever! of course! So J.C. Staff implied Riki X kyousuke. Riki is gay and kyousuke wants Riki to marry Rin O . O dem implications, yeah, that kind of threw me off in the drama, with my snickering at the idea of that pairing being more real in this anime than with any of the girls |
smilewolfyDec 22, 2013 9:33 PM
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smilewolfy said: planetarian said: Riki: Talk to me more, Like you use to... Kyousuke: Then what would you do with Rin? From now on, it's up to you to talk to her Riki: But... This is... All this time, I've been following you. I don't want you to go! Kyousuke: How long must you keep bothering me? Riki: Forever! of course! So J.C. Staff implied Riki X kyousuke. Riki is gay and kyousuke wants Riki to marry Rin O . O dem implications, yeah, that kind of threw me off in the drama, with my snickering at the idea of that pairing being more real in this anime than with any of the girls So Riki x Kyousuke & Rin x Komari http://thisismyjoystick.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/63b6b35d_DEAL-WITH-IT.jpeg |
koagzero said: smilewolfy said: planetarian said: Riki: Talk to me more, Like you use to... Kyousuke: Then what would you do with Rin? From now on, it's up to you to talk to her Riki: But... This is... All this time, I've been following you. I don't want you to go! Kyousuke: How long must you keep bothering me? Riki: Forever! of course! So J.C. Staff implied Riki X kyousuke. Riki is gay and kyousuke wants Riki to marry Rin O . O dem implications, yeah, that kind of threw me off in the drama, with my snickering at the idea of that pairing being more real in this anime than with any of the girls So Riki x Kyousuke & Rin x Komari http://thisismyjoystick.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/63b6b35d_DEAL-WITH-IT.jpeg yes, there is nothing else |
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Vladz0r said: I'm like you. I don't give a damn on to who Riki may end up with. May it be a cat a or a dog or Kyousuke, I don't care. Just gimme that hospital scene -__-I like how most of the hospitalfags are Rinfags. I think I'm one of the few who wanted the normal/bad/hospital end and didn't care for Rin (in any sense of the word "care"). |
| They should've made refrain 14 episodes at least |
Ol-Hybrius said: julyan04 said: I'm like you. I don't give a damn on to who Riki may end up with. May it be a cat a or a dog or Kyousuke, I don't care. Just gimme that hospital scene -__- Time for some Riki x Lennon or Riki x Strelka ! I'm sure this exists somewhere... but I don't want it. |
smilewolfy said: planetarian said: Riki: Talk to me more, Like you use to... Kyousuke: Then what would you do with Rin? From now on, it's up to you to talk to her Riki: But... This is... All this time, I've been following you. I don't want you to go! Kyousuke: How long must you keep bothering me? Riki: Forever! of course! So J.C. Staff implied Riki X kyousuke. Riki is gay and kyousuke wants Riki to marry Rin O . O dem implications, yeah, that kind of threw me off in the drama, with my snickering at the idea of that pairing being more real in this anime than with any of the girls How you were thrown off by that scene when the dialogue was identical to The VN baffles me. The only change was the translation and voice acting. |
| Bleh, Friday going to a resort for 5 Days.. Hopefully I can get internet there so I can watch the last episode. |
Ol-Hybrius said: Interesting fact, some anime-only viewers seem to think the Little Busters are actually dead and Riki and Rin are going to bring them back to life. Little Shaman ? Human Transmutation. |
Ol-Hybrius said: Interesting fact, some anime-only viewers seem to think the Little Busters are actually dead and Riki and Rin are going to bring them back to life. Little Shaman ? Sigh... It just goes to show how little people pay attention, and that even with Tonokawa spoonshoving people foreshadowing and explanations, it still doesn't matter. It feels like they could've turned the farewells episode into AnoHana's 11th episode full of excessive crying, and the show would've shot up to 8.8 on MAL or something. Refrain is obviously a bit too deep for this one section of anime watchers that can now access the Sparknotes version of the story by watching the first 32 episodes while half-asleep. Even though the series has a ton of problems, Little Busters would always have this one braindead section of the viewer base that will get to the climax of Refrain without picking up a single hint about the world being fake, and then won't feel a thing for Kyousuke's farewell. But yeah, luckily since it's a sequel, most people who watch the show half-assedly just drop it before season 2. |
| EDIT: since I made no sense lol I probably won't marathon S1 since I must've seen each episode a few times already, probably will marathon refrain 4-13 again once it ends. |
egnaro15Dec 24, 2013 2:12 PM
| Got no place sadly for Refrain to be in top 10 for me :(, Probably 11th place but way to many shows this season overtook Refrain in popularity. |
| >Marathoning this Little Busters adaptation. I couldn't even marathon this season, let alone season 1. I sometimes look back to some scenes, because I like how some of them were voiced. I can't even watch the show and enjoy it anymore, sadly, since I guess I ruined the anime watching experience by reading the source material first. Actually... I don't even think s1 would be as hard to rewatch as s2, honestly. I don't want to see Miyuki in episode 6. I want to see Riki taking care of Rin. I want to see Kurugaya actually have her diary open. I want to feel for Masato, not laugh at him. The farewell episode was decent for me and good with Kyousuke's farewell. A lot of the rest of the show just feels like it's going through the motions and presenting the story in a pretty boring fashion that doesn't do anything for me. In season 1, at least the heroine arcs feel closer to the original and bring most of the emotional climaxes that I felt from the VN. |
Vladz0rDec 24, 2013 2:27 PM
| Atleast it will be all over this Saturday, all the pain and suffering VN readers have been through this season is finally coming to an end, god.. finally.. And then next year with the LB! EX. Thats going to be even worse.. 4 episodes for Saya wat a joke. #JCStaffSoGreat. |
DeathyZA said: Atleast it will be all over this Saturday, all the pain and suffering VN readers have been through this season is finally coming to an end, god.. finally.. And then next year with the LB! EX. Thats going to be even worse.. 4 episodes for Saya wat a joke. #JCStaffSoGreat. Yeah, can't wait to bid farewell to these forums. Hopefully the discussion dies down so that I can stay away from here. Some people could do without more of my arguments I guess. And @Ol-Hybrius Yeah, the art/animation is pretty bad. The thing is that I watched season 1 already knowing the Secret, so it doesn't have much rewatch value for me. I'm still wondering where the hell these scene/animations went: http://i.imgur.com/IdYmbNW.jpg I can understand the Mio one, at least, and I guess the script was changed for Haruka's. Kud's scene looked great and like the CG http://puu.sh/5XBu7.jpg http://puu.sh/5XBuA.jpg http://puu.sh/5XBzM.jpg http://puu.sh/5XBAp.jpg They at least had some screenplay, but but they couldn't fit in the original stylistic view from the preview, but shit, she's not even chained to the pole anymore :/ Ah well, hopefully I'll come across some other good shows sometime. |
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